Tangents vs. Relevance

[Empirical Pussy]

I was talking to Freeze about this, and he said I should make a thread on it to see the forums' views and opinions on this.

We're a community that tends to go off-topic quite a bit, there's no doubt about that. But the admins are also constantly pressing for us to... stop. Because staying on-topic is better for organization. It's cleaner. But personally, I don't really fully understand or agree with how adamant they are.

If it's a thread in Serious Discussion or something with a very specific topic, like a specific movie or whatever, then yeah, I can fully understand why tangents that go too far are unacceptable. But if it's just a casual thread in Stuff about, I dunno, your day at school, or something that happened in your life, then what is the problem with tangents? Why not just roll with it if that's where the conversation leads? Tangents usually develop on casual, broad topics, anyway.
I suppose it would be disrespectful to the author of the thread to suddenly go completely off-topic, but like I said, threads like those are casual, anyway. They're not meant for a serious debate. And it's more often gradual than a sudden change in topic.

Clear-cut, perfectly-organized, always-on-topic forums are boring, to put it simply.
If a conversation gradually shifts, it's because the community wants it. If that's what we want to talk about, why shouldn't we discuss it?
The argument against it is that one should just make a new thread. But it's much harder to spark conversation that way. It's not quite the same, either. The only way I can think of describing this is using a bad analogy. It's like making a tangent joke to a friend in class that's sparked by something the teacher said, only to be told to raise your hand if you have something to say. Chances are, you're just not going to say anything then.

Tangents are enjoyable. They bring activity and spark conversation. It's not like they're entirely spam, either. They usually have some sort of topic to them. If not, they're purely for enjoyment and amusement.
Amusement is good. We want amusement. Members return to forums on which they have a good time.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, particularly on boards like Stuff, I really don't understand what's wrong with going off-topic. I mean, I suppose you could split any topic that goes on a tangent, but that's annoying as hell and I'm sure you don't want that.

Um. So yeah. Discuss. Tangents: positive or negative?
Should we be a nazi forum? Give me relevance or give me death?

[Cythrosi]

Generally I don't care about tangents unless we get so horribly off topic there's no possible chance it will ever even be in the same ballpark as the original topic.  Otherwise, they're fun and not an issue.

I've only been bitching at you guys because it's not tangents that are irritating me, more so some of the actual threads being made.  Hell, tangents are what have kept me from locking Nines little LJ threads.

[Fluffy Cocaine]

Here's the chat Tina and I had about it so I don't have to restate my opinions.

Tina
11:26 PM I really dont understand what you ~admins~ have against chatting on boards
11:26 PM or on threads, rather
Polarimetric:
11:28 PM there are just times when it gets a little out of hand and it would be preferable if it was all confined to one thread
Tina
11:28 PM But chat threads are dumb. Like.
11:29 PM I can't explain this, fuck.
11:29 PM A chat thread would be like a shoutbox. No actual chatting would take place.
11:29 PM We have a Stuff board. That's for... stuff. I always assumed that was essentially... chatting.
Polarimetric:
11:29 PM well then not a chat thread but it's just like...
11:29 PM there are places for chatting and there are places where chatting shouldn't take place as much as it perhaps does
11:29 PM and the issue i have with it was...
11:29 PM if things went off on a tangent in threads every now and then
11:30 PM but then CAME BACK to the actual subject
11:30 PM then i'd be fine with it
11:30 PM but whenever a topic goes off-topic, even a little bit, it never goes back until a mod steps in and splits it out or deletes stuff or something
Tina
11:30 PM I can fully understand that on, like, Serious Discussion threads or something
11:30 PM Something which actually has a semi-important topic.
Polarimetric:
11:30 PM i know but it's nice to keep some semblance of relevancy in regards to a topic and its original post :x
Tina
11:30 PM But why?
Polarimetric:
11:31 PM because it's just better for organization
Tina
11:31 PM In the end, a forum is for one's enjoyment.
11:31 PM But that's boring.
Polarimetric:
11:31 PM i mean if a thread starts out about a school day and ends up about pancakes...
11:31 PM why don't you just make a new thread about pancakes? :\
11:31 PM i mean it feel slike being in a conversation in real life
11:31 PM where people go off-topic
Tina
11:31 PM Because it wouldn't spark conversation.. :x
Polarimetric:
11:31 PM and you want to really talk about what was originally being talked about
11:31 PM but the other people in the conversation have gone way off-track that it's impossible to pull them back
Tina
11:32 PM You could post a message regarding school, for example, and hope someone replies to it and you get back on track.
Polarimetric:
11:32 PM but it never really happens that way :x
Tina
11:32 PM Then so what?
11:32 PM Again, if it's an important discussion, then it probably would not have gone that off track, ayway.
Polarimetric:
11:32 PM well, what's important is in the eye of the poster
Tina
11:33 PM Generally, discussions that go that off topic were begging for tangents to begin with.
Polarimetric:
11:33 PM and it just gets annoying when every single thread goes off-topic because then it's impossible to hold down a conversation

[Mark]

I can't agree enough.  I'm annoyed with the way topics are constantly split when they go a tiny bit off topic.  Who cares?  The world isn't gonna end because the topic veers to something different.  Like you said, that's a natural thing.  Even if it is a little more than a small change, who cares?  On-topic discussion is boring. 

Again like you said, I can understand it with Serious Discussion and such, but I don't see why anyone cares about off-topic discussion in Stuff.  Personally, I hardly visit the forum anymore.  It just bores me to death.  The random stuff that comes up in MSN convos entertains me more.  I'd like to see the forum become more like that.

Not implying that I want to throw any sign of intelligence out the window, but does it really hurt to have some fun?  Running everything so tight just gets annoying after a while.

Good example.  I just read that now.  I thought it was funny.  It was stupid, sure, but I don't see the point in locking it.  It's better than a worthless on-topic discussion.

[GracefulDave]

Good one Genius. I lol'd.

What came to mind just after launch of Aurality, was who is doing the writing? If we are going towards organized articles and the like, then why would I post? I could just browse and read. I wouldn't have much to say to add, so why bother? I'm glad to see it didn't turn out like that. This forum is a bunch of friends with in jokes chatting. It happens in regualr conversation. Again, it depends on the forum, but as in Mark's example, the tangent came fast and furious and was continued until the lawlz ended, and I bet it could've then continued on in the proper fashion. As long as it returns to the topic of the thread then the topic still holds. If it rambles to far, well, admins/mods have their discretion. You don't have to clip their wings so fast.

[Mark]

This forum is a bunch of friends with in jokes chatting.

Exactly.  As things stand now, this forum is nothing more than a group of friends.  I enjoy that, personally.  In such a situation, no moderation work should really be necessary.  The feeling I get from a lot of that kind of stuff with Orbital and this place is that it's just people wanting some excuse to use their power. 

If we ever start getting members, fine, change things.  As things stand now, there's no reason.  In my opinion, moderation shouldn't be done simply on personal opinion.  If the people are enjoying it, let it go.  Above all, that's what this is all here for.  Just something for people to enjoy. 

[Cesium]

I think if the thread naturally evolves with many people posting, even if it becomes something totally different, it should be fine. On the other hand, if it degenerates into essentially a two-person spam thread (*coughcough*), no.

Genius, problem is, we're not going to get many members if the forums are a complete mess.

[Nines~Tempest]

I would definitely prefer that people stayed on topic.  I'm notorius (sp?) about that on my clan site.  Off Topic discussions look stupid, and it generally shows people have less respect for the forum.

BUT... considering how small this community is, I think it's fine. *Alex's arguement here*.

[Wilhelmina Carmel]

I like tangents. It's cool if only a couple of posts are off-topic but after that maybe it should be taken into PMs or IM or something or other.

</retart opinion>

[Empirical Pussy]

Genius, problem is, we're not going to get many members if the forums are a complete mess.

It's not like it's turning the forum upside down.
Besides, I disagree, I'd rather join a casual forum than one that's organized as hell.

[Mark]

Genius, problem is, we're not going to get many members if the forums are a complete mess.

You make it sound like a few topics getting off-topic is tearing the forum apart.  I doubt that many people will see a thread in Stuff getting a little out of control, and automatically base their entire opinion of the forum on it.

[Fluffy Cocaine]

On the other hand, if it degenerates into essentially a two-person spam thread (*coughcough*), no.

That's basically what every thread turns into. >_>

[GracefulDave]

It looks like the location of the thread plays a big role here, yeah? Obviously Serious Discussion tangents are a no go. With the whole revamp, what I gathered is that we want to provide a forum for music, movies, television, and gaming; with articles to fit. That's what the draw is, yeah? That's what we want people to see us as. So expand the Serious Discussion faux pas to those boards as well. Tangents, while funny, are inherently destructive if those boards are seen as having a service to give and you are deviating from that. Take this air of professionalism that the new forum has and keep it in mind in regardes to what this forum is for.

[Rosti LFC]

For me off-topic discussion isn't a problem. Neither is chatting that much in itself.
My main problem is that the actual content when the chatting starts. Far too often it just becomes, in my view, a series of posts which vaguely attempt to be funny but tend to fall short. Genius's example, fair enough, some entertainment was made, but I think that it's far too often that it just descends into a series of posts, one after the other, than don't go anywhere, say nothing important or intelligent, contain virtually no actual lulz, and are generally just devoid of any sort of attribute that might justify their existence.
If you're going to make an off-topic post then at least make sure it's saying something that is worth saying. Banality and general idiocy is for the likes of MSN, not the forum.

[Clyde]

I don't really have much to add.

All the Media boards (as well as Serious Discussion and Current Events) should remain on topic as much as possible.  Sure the occasional tangent and off-topic posts are acceptable at times as long as good discussion is taking place.  If it gets on the tad spammy/pointless side and really leads to nothing constructive, it shouldn't be posted there if we are trying to come across as professional.

But, for the Stuff board, I really don't see the harm in it.  I do think that we might be going in the wrong direction with the whole LJ-eqsue threads as was mentioned earlier, but really, we need that board to kick back and have some fun to build up the sense of community here.

Also, just because I say that all the Media/Current Events/Serious Discussion boards to be on topic, doesn't mean that we have to be completely serious 100% of the time.  I don't expect everyone to post all robotic-like.  (Like them Sages back at NSider)  Just be you and discuss the topics.

As for splitting topics, I have no opinion yet.  It's a case by case thing, I'd think.  I mean, if the off-topic discussion is still interesting and leads to more quality discussion, then I don't see the harm in it.

[Cesium]

You make it sound like a few topics getting off-topic is tearing the forum apart.  I doubt that many people will see a thread in Stuff getting a little out of control, and automatically base their entire opinion of the forum on it.

So I'm pessimistic. Just as long as it doesn't get out of control and every thread becomes spam. Like I said before, let it continue if it's good discussion, and if gets far enough away, split the topic.

[GracefulDave]

So, posters, just keep in mind that when in the Media boards and the Serious Discussion threads you should stay on topic. Having that in mind willl stop most of the truly pointless posts, and any moderation won't be seen as too harsh from then on.

[Empirical Pussy]

The Life's Little Joys topic is a good example of what I'm talking about. Why is the lock necessary? Okay, so it's full of dumb replies. Why can't it be ignored? What's it taking away from the forum?

[Alex]

Or just change the topic within the topic to get away from all the confusion. It was a really broad topic. If one discussion in it goes astray, then bring up something else.

[Fluffy Cocaine]

The Life's Little Joys topic is a good example of what I'm talking about. Why is the lock necessary? Okay, so it's full of dumb replies. Why can't it be ignored? What's it taking away from the forum?

The Life's Little Joys topic was locked most likely because of the stupid argument that was going on inside of it that was taking the place of any other discussion that could have taken place in the thread.

I will split out the argument and unlock the thread.