school/learning/etc

[Empirical Pussy]

wall of text

To put it simply: I agree.
That's also why math is one of the simplest ways to rank one's intelligence, if you ask me.

[Nines~Tempest]

Anecdotes are bragging, now?

... Wouldn't it save something like an infinite amount of time if they gave us a test at the beginning, taught us the things we didn't know, and then tested us again to make sure?

My math class does that for fractions kind of.  More like just to see how we improve.

And if you don't know that teachers plan the ENTIRE school year every summer, then you don't know much about school and you can't very well criticize it.  I would LOVE to see a teacher give a test, then see what everyone sucked at, then make the rest of the semester teach that.  No way that can possibly happen.

[Fluffy Cocaine]

... Wouldn't it save something like an infinite amount of time if they gave us a test at the beginning, taught us the things we didn't know, and then tested us again to make sure?

Use generalities much?

You just left a gigantic gray area. You just said that teachers should test us before the lesson to see what we already know, teach us what we don't know, and then test us again. How do you propose they teach us what we don't know in any way that's different from their current usual method? How do you account for everyone in the class? I doubt everyone in a class will have the same knowledge, so the teacher would still have to accomodate for what each person individually doesn't know, meaning that, since the questions people get wrong are generally quite scattered if all of the questions are the same difficulty level, the teacher would most likely end up teaching the whole lesson anyway.

[Genevra]

... Wouldn't it save something like an infinite amount of time if they gave us a test at the beginning, taught us the things we didn't know, and then tested us again to make sure?[/color]

They do something like that in my school at the beginning of the semester, I think it's stupid.
Different children obviously know different things, so in the end you'll end up having to cover everything.

[Loki]

Give credit to the students for what they already know.

[Alex]

To put it simply: I agree.
That's also why math is one of the simplest ways to rank one's intelligence, if you ask me.

I think there's more to intelligence than just logical thought, but it's definitely a start.

[Clyde]

I remember having a very intense Math 30 Pure course when I was in grade 11.  I took the class in my first semester seeing how I wanted to get all of my math courses out of the way.

She was a Japanese teacher and her methods were to the extreme end at times, but if anything, she made us comprehend what we were doing and spent a lot of time going over the concepts.  She taught everything herself and we only actually used the textbook maybe once or twice in the year.  She'd also force random people to solve a problem without warning then insult them if they screwed up, to which the whole class would laugh.

It was an interesting class in that sometime right at the end of the class, she'd actually pass out a test and force us to finish the problem within the 5-10 minutes.  Once there was only 3 minutes left I recall.  And I remember they weren't simple questions.  You'd have to figure out what it's asking you and comprehend what you are reading and translate it into math.  It would be for marks too.

If anything, it helped me work under pressure which I was always terrible at before.  It was an interesting approach, but I think her methods were very affective and actually helped me understand everything so much easier on top of that.  You'd never know what to expect in her class.

Way better then so many other teachers who are just straight from the textbook, or just blandly read out notes in a monotone voice or write them on the board, you copy, then you have a few minutes to work on homework.  With my math teacher, she actually made class, you know, interesting.  And I'm not fond of math.

The practice and repetition in math does actually help you get the concepts down.  When the curriculum gets harder, you can't just simply memorize formulas anymore.  You have to understand how to apply them in certain situations.

It's absolutely true what Tina said earlier, if anything, math in grade 12 helps you develop more logical thinking.

Christ, 8 new replies while I typed this?  Well... I'll just post this then see what you guys had to say.

[Empirical Pussy]

Give credit to the students for what they already know.

Why? Some kids could have had bad teachers in the past. Or come from a different area in which the curriculum was just different.

I think there's more to intelligence than just logical thought, but it's definitely a start.

I dunno, everything seems to be kind of based on logic, in my opinion.
For curiosity, not argument's sake, what else is there to intelligence?

[Fluffy Cocaine]

Give credit to the students for what they already know.

What kind of credit? Why should people benefit from already knowing more than the other students going into a class if the point of a class is to learn about the subject?

[Nines~Tempest]

You're using MIDDLE SCHOOL to justify your opinion that you can just slack off and still pass tests with flying colors?

Middle school is a playground. I didn't put in basically any effort beyond the absolute minimum throughout middle school and I was within the top 4 of everyone I talked to throughout the entire year. 90% of the stuff I learned in pre-algebra, I had already learned in fourth and fifth grade math classes.

If you think that schools teach people things in an inefficient manner, do you have any suggestions for an alternate method of teaching? What do you propose they do, throw a laptop at you and let you just do random research all day? It doesn't work.

I learned all of this the hard way. I was like you up until this year. I had the opinion that school didn't teach me anything efficiently enough and that I could be learning so much more in a different environment and that school was holding me back. I, too, daydreamed throughout all of my classes and bullshitted on all of my volunteered answers just to make it look like I was involved in the class.

As a result of my flippancy towards my schoolwork, when the teacher yanked away the review sheets and test bonuses and I felt no need to study because I thought I had the material down one hundred percent, my Earth Science grade dropped sixteen points in two weeks because I almost failed two tests in a row. It just doesn't work.

This happened to me when I started my junior year of high school (this year).  I had not gotten into the habbit of doing homework since the 7th grade... and I was completely screwed.

Get into the habbit of homework.  Sure every teacher tells you to, but it is for a good damn reason.

[Nines~Tempest]

Give credit to the students for what they already know.

Prove it?

No wait, that's what SCHOOL DOES -_-.

[Loki]

What kind of credit? Why should people benefit from already knowing more than the other students going into a class if the point of a class is to learn about the subject?

wtf, did you really just ask why someone should benefit from knowing something?

(editeditedit) And to what Clyde said, classes like those work. They really do. They should have more of those... but I wouldn't like them.

[Nines~Tempest]

wtf, did you really just ask why someone should benefit from knowing something?

Benefit more than people who are in the same class to learn what you've already learned.  If they do know it, then they should do all the work and get an A+.  Do you think they should get like +10% because they just happen to know more?

[Loki]

Benefit more than people who are in the same class to learn what you've already learned.  If they do know it, then they should do all the work and get an A+.  Do you think they should get like +10% because they just happen to know more?

Yes.
doing the work wastes time and is not fun. Time should only be wasted for fun.

[Nines~Tempest]

Yes.
doing the work wastes time and is not fun. Time should only be wasted for fun.

...

You are going to get nowhere in your life.  You're going to get Fs in college because homework isn't required (hell, maybe two papers and two exams?) and you'll get a minimum wage job if you approach life with the "everything we should do should be fun" outlook.

[Loki]

Don't most college classes rely heavily on big things like essays and tests instead of grinding?

[Alex]

For curiosity, not argument's sake, what else is there to intelligence?

Hm, now that I think about it, maybe it is based on logic, but I think it's logic that's a bit deeper than math. Intelligence is more about comprehension than logic, though those two are definitely tied together.

[Alex]

Loki, the only class that I can possibly agree with your logic on is Math.

[Loki]

I think all intelligence is logic... but really really REALLY deep logic. Such as finding parallels and crap like that.

The reason it's all logic is because: logic = true.
Something must be true to exist. so all things that are = logic

[Alex]

...

You are going to get nowhere in your life.  You're going to get Fs in college because homework isn't required (hell, maybe two papers and two exams?) and you'll get a minimum wage job if you approach life with the "everything we should do should be fun" outlook.

How the hell can you justify saying something like that? You've lived life just as much as he has, you don't know.