school/learning/etc

[Fluffy Cocaine]

Now, this is most likely true, but is it because they are more intelligent, learn better, and then do better, or is it that they can see how much effort they have to put in and therefore get better grades?

Depends on the person, really.

Grades get you into college? I believe that's what I said. Employers don't look at your high school grades. If you didn't get good high school grades that doesn't mean you can't get into college. You can do everything outside of high school that you need to get into college. Like I said, it saves time (and money mostly) if you do it in high school, but you don't HAVE to. Your statement that you won't get a job because of your high school performance is wrong. Yes, what it leads to is possible, but that's what I said anyways, so there's no debate. The only people who care about what you got in high school are the people who tell you when you get to sign up for your courses. Really, if you got grades that don't even allow you into any university, then I doubt that's where you'll want to end up anyways.

You can, but how many people actually do? Besides, who's going to be enticed to do that if they didn't do well in high school in the first place? There's no reason to. The only people who would be willing to put forth the effort and the money to do something like that are the types of people who would bother to do it in high school.

I wasn't saying that your grades in high school are any measurement in whether or not you get employed. I was saying that one thing leads to another most of the time. If you said that as well, then I misunderstood you.

[Empirical Pussy]

A good balance would probably be just to check for completion, and then go over the correct answers.

Why would that help?
I would do what I did in grade eight. Do one piece of homework (usually copied off someone else, to be honest) each unit and re-use it over and over again on each check for completion. Then I'd play games on my calculator while we were going over the homework.

[Fluffy Cocaine]

Why would that help?
I would do what I did in grade eight. Do one piece of homework (usually copied off someone else, to be honest) each unit and re-use it over and over again on each check for completion. Then I'd play games on my calculator while we were going over the homework.

That doesn't work when the teacher goes around and forces you to hold up the paper and flip the pages to see that you did every page.

[Empirical Pussy]

That doesn't work when the teacher goes around and forces you to hold up the paper and flip the pages to see that you did every page.

We never get worksheets, though. It's always textbook pages.

[Cythrosi]

We never get worksheets, though. It's always textbook pages.

Our teacher uses this method:
She does a quick check to see that it's done, goes over problems we have questions about, then collects it, checks to see it was properly completed (meaning you actually have shit relevant to the problems asked) and then gives you a grade for completion.  She doesn't care if it's right or wrong, as long as she can see effort was put into it, you'll do well.  Well except for on the tests and quizzes.  But the homework gives you the chance to see where you're struggling and allows you to ask for extra help or explanation where needed.

[Cesium]

We never get worksheets, though. It's always textbook pages.

That's irrelevant. The teacher can just scan the problems and check the problem numbers, or that you're actually using the right techniques.

The point of a class is (should be) that the students understand the material. This means that the students don't cheat and don't slack off. If they feel obligated or free to do so, the teacher isn't doing their job.

[Empirical Pussy]

GF: That sounds like a pretty efficient method.

Cesium: The point is, he didn't check. He didn't pay much attention at all.
And also, I disagree. Think about it this way: making the homework optional teaches kids responsibility. I'm definitely going to start picking up the slack and getting my math homework done. Probably next year, when my marks actually start to really matter, and the few marks will be important. I'm actually one of the very few students in my class who regularly doesn't complete the homework. My teacher always spends some time at the beginning of class going over questions about the homework, and almost everyone is checking over their work.

[Cesium]

Hmm, I thought I quoted your post... anyway.

How does that teach responsibility? If students feel free not to do their homework, they're only hurting themselves. Sure, you can say you understand the material already and don't need to do it, but is that a judgment the students are really qualified to make? Or you can say the class doesn't really matter and you need time for other things, but that's responsibility too - taking care of your time.

[Empirical Pussy]

... how does it not teach responsibility? It teaches kids to do their own work as not to hurt themselves. No, it's not a judgment students are qualified to make, in general. That is why they need to learn. o.o It's taking responsibility for your own education, and not only doing the homework because you're being forced.

[Rosti LFC]

Homework is fucking important.

For example, doing an entire Maths A-Level, which usually takes two years, in a single year. We were going at a pretty rapid pace, because we needed to be, and were basically doing a topic every lesson.
The worst thing was, we did no classwork. Whatsoever. She also didn't ever collect in homework, so we never did it. Basically, we simply watched her go through the stuff without ever actually doing any of it ourselves first-hand.
Wasn't so bad as we were going through, but when the exams rolled around and we realised that what we knew amounted to a little more than absolutely nothing, things weren't fun. Took some hard work and revision to get the marks I wanted and needed.
Sure, you could say in the end everything worked out fine, but I don't think it's the best way to go about things. New teacher this year, again doing an entire A-Level in one year, but Further Maths this time, which technically should be harder. However, I've found it isn't, because this teacher gives us proper worksheets to do in class and for homework (he gives us shitloads of it too). As a result, I find I learn the topics as we cover them, and only need some light revision to remember stuff I've forgotten before the exam, rather than having to learn the entire syllabus for basically the first time in the space of a few weeks.
Maybe these sorts of things have to be learnt from personal experience, but lets face it, kids are lazy, and if you don't make them do the work, they won't. And I think it's harsh if their exam results suck simply because of that fact.

[Nines~Tempest]

I have never found any importance in studying.  I find as long as I do all the homework, I can figure out other facts from logic, relating to parts of the course I know very well.

That's probably why I suck at history.

[Fluffy Cocaine]

I generally find that studying is only really important in the lower grade levels if you have a shitty teacher. My Earth Science teacher gives me that problem. Generally, I never have to study for tests, but he doesn't make his own tests (he relies on this stupid system called School Island that automatically creates tests based on subject matter and difficulty level) and thus there are many questions on tests that he never teaches us.

[Empirical Pussy]

I generally find that studying is only really important in the lower grade levels if you have a shitty teacher. My Earth Science teacher gives me that problem. Generally, I never have to study for tests, but he doesn't make his own tests (he relies on this stupid system called School Island that automatically creates tests based on subject matter and difficulty level) and thus there are many questions on tests that he never teaches us.

... that's just ridiculous.

[Nines~Tempest]

I generally find that studying is only really important in the lower grade levels if you have a shitty teacher. My Earth Science teacher gives me that problem. Generally, I never have to study for tests, but he doesn't make his own tests (he relies on this stupid system called School Island that automatically creates tests based on subject matter and difficulty level) and thus there are many questions on tests that he never teaches us.

Get that guy fired That's horrible...

[Fluffy Cocaine]

... that's just ridiculous.

Tell me about it. That's why my grade fell from a 97 to an 81 in the last 2 weeks. I'm not that good at Earth Science to begin with.

Get that guy fired That's horrible...

You should hear about my global history teacher. I recently offered to go home and bring back a packet that I forgot at home so that it would only be considered one day late (it was due on Friday, I offered that on Monday). He told me to bring it in Tuesday and he wouldn't take any points off. I just checked my grades to find that he gave me a 33% (two days late) and it was a project grade.

[Nines~Tempest]

Jesus Christ... ask what's wrong?...

[Fluffy Cocaine]

Jesus Christ... ask what's wrong?...

More like ask what isn't wrong. That's not the first time he's lied to a student. He also never grades his own papers and says that it's because he has a "baby at home".

[Loki]

In all honesty, I hadn't read much of this thread until today. I've been sick all week, and I was also watching something when I was posting earlier.
And in the hour it took me to read SIX pages, I forgot most of my points, so let's see what I can remember.


My problem with the school system has always been that people can work their ass off and get through it with really high grades. I found that I'd get the same, if not higher, grades on tests. This is a problem because, since they worked their asses off, they were fucking dumb (and in my grade, still are). I found that I was much more enlightened than they were. The schools don't teach actual thought or anything that is true helpful. (Don't get me wrong, what school teaches is helpful, but not nearly as much.)

Then I started to get bored. I was always ahead, and my mind was always wandering because I wanted to LEARN SOMETHING I DIDN"T KNOW. I did learn some important things, but not as often as I should have been. Combined with that obvious difference between people like me and those who were always doing there work (A little bit of which was that people like me constantly got in trouble) so mindlessly, the education system began to seem shallow.

All of which remains true in elementary, middle, and high school. I'm certain this will be different in College, because it seems like they teach things in there.


Oh, and another problem I have with school: I hate anything that wastes any amount of time, because I don't have as much as you guys. I'm sick most of the time, in such a painful why that I may say it makes me retarded.

[Cesium]

I have never found any importance in studying.  I find as long as I do all the homework, I can figure out other facts from logic, relating to parts of the course I know very well.

Yeah. IMO, you should never need to cram for a test. That shows not only that the course teaches more knowledge than understanding, but that regular classwork and homework don't do their job in preparing you for the test. If you study specifically for the test, you're not going to remember much past the test, so it doesn't help you in the long run.

[Deezlink]

I wrote a paper on this in school, but the teacher took points off for me stating that, "Not only students receive less homework, but the teachers also reap the benefits having to grade less and having time for additional school to obtain a higher degree (as one is always a student)."

My school is dumb. In Science, my group thought that the Pleiades Cluster was smaller than the Hubble Telescope.